A MARTÍNEZ, HOST:
Thirty years ago today, a new woman-led fantasy show began a conquest of syndicated television.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "XENA: WARRIOR PRINCESS")
LUCY LAWLESS: (As Xena, vocalizing)
MARTÍNEZ: That is the battle cry of "Xena: Warrior Princess." The series was a spin off of "Hercules: The Legendary Journeys," and it didn't take long for Xena to surpass Hercules' TV ratings. The star of "Xena," Lucy Lawless, was not surprised one bit.
LAWLESS: To be honest, I was so green that I thought for sure, it would be a hit.
(LAUGHTER)
LAWLESS: And I just thought that's naturally what happens.
MARTÍNEZ: And that is what happened. Lucy Lawless and her husband, Robert Tapert - an executive producer of the show - join me from New Zealand to reminisce about how "Xena" found its audience.
Did you have a period of finding your footing as a show?
LAWLESS: I think we were shooting Episode 8 when we started getting reports from, like, The Village Voice, and they were hailing the characters as gay icons, and Renee and I were amused as hell reading this on the side of the set, going, did you ever? Well, you know (laughter), like, that's amazing. We knew that we had hit a groove because the gay community and our fandom was also particularly internet-savvy right at the beginning in 1995, and it just caught on with the burgeoning of that technology, a hunger for female-led shows - just everything aligned.
MARTÍNEZ: Yeah, and that relationship between Xena and Gabrielle - Gabrielle played by Renee O'Connor - in a lot of spaces, it was controversial. In other spaces, as you mentioned, Lucy, it was a point of pride. It sounded like you at first thought, where are these ideas coming from? But, I mean, they were there - and were they intentional?
ROB TAPERT: No, not really. Certainly not at the start of the show because the studio was so adamant that the show not be perceived as that, that they wouldn't let Lucy or Renee be in the same shot in the title sequence. But the audience eventually read into what they wanted, which was interesting 'cause they never assumed Hercules and Iolaus were gay. And then once we heard it, we started to drip feed into that. But it was always meant to be a show that worked for 6 to 60, we would say. So it had to walk a fine line, which is some people get the joke and others don't.
MARTÍNEZ: Well, you know, as you mentioned, Rob, so it's two women in a very close relationship. I mean, although, you know, things are hinted - at least the way the viewers perceive it - but who exactly were those themes for, do you think?
TAPERT: First and foremost was to tell an adventure show that made the audience feel something and not necessarily one about the sexuality, but more about a character on the road to redemption.
LAWLESS: And the effect that it had on the audience, the messages that they took on it, we could not have foreseen. And I don't just mean, like, with the, you know, were they, were they not lesbian, 'cause you can't control people's minds, you know?
MARTÍNEZ: Yeah. I guess, yeah, that's the way it works. You put some art out in the world, and you never know how people are going to react to it.
LAWLESS: Yeah, exactly.
MARTÍNEZ: Today, that storyline would not raise an eye, right? I mean, were there times where you were worried that maybe the network was a little too sensitive about the relationship and the implied relationship between the two as a couple? Was that something that you worried about when you were writing storylines?
TAPERT: The studio was pretty hands off. We knew we wanted to be a transgressive show, and we wanted "Xena" to be pushing the borders at that time. But in 1995 - and it's not all that long ago, but it was a different world - we had Xena have a series of ex-lovers in the first seven episodes, who were all men of color. So we were pushing the borders racially at the start, and eventually sexuality came into it.
MARTÍNEZ: Yeah. Let me ask you, like, the last episode, the water transfer scene.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "XENA: WARRIOR PRINCESS")
LAWLESS: (As Xena) Gabrielle.
MARTÍNEZ: So Xena is in a battle. She gets injured to the point where she needs water from a magical fountain to regain her strength. She can't get to it, but Gabrielle can, and she has no other way to carry the water, other than to carry it in her mouth and give it to Xena. That became this big moment in "Xena" history, I think, because it became, like, the first, at least, real kiss in a lot of people's eyes. Getting to that part to filming that scene, did you both realize what kind of an impact that scene would have on fans - and then maybe people that didn't really like the show because of the themes alike?
LAWLESS: No. To us, it was just like, oh, that's the story. That's what we're doing today. We never thought about the impact on anybody. Rob, what do you think?
TAPERT: I - well, actually, because I was there in directing the final episode, Lucy and Renee kind of went, all right, we finally got here. So they knew exactly what that moment was about.
LAWLESS: Oh.
TAPERT: So...
LAWLESS: OK, I've forgotten (laughter).
TAPERT: Yes, it was very much...
MARTÍNEZ: (Laughter).
TAPERT: ...We are going to finally pay this off and give the fans what they ask for.
MARTÍNEZ: Do you two ever go to any of the conventions that are held? I know there's one in Burbank, California, Xenacon. I mean, Do you two...
LAWLESS: Yeah.
MARTÍNEZ: ...Ever show up to any of those things?
LAWLESS: That's the only one that I go to. And they do a lot for charity, so we do it for charity, that event.
MARTÍNEZ: What do you hear from people when you go? What do they tell you about how they feel about the character and you in the show?
LAWLESS: The prevailing notion is that this show freed me to be more of myself, whether it's - there's a lot of people that struggled against the situation they grew up in - maybe sickness, illness - and it gave them courage. They took that notion of, I am an imperfect person who deserves to be fabulous, and they made it real in their lives, and they seemed to thank me and the show for that, though I was only saying somebody else's words, really.
MARTÍNEZ: No, but you don't give yourself enough credit, Lucy (laughter). I mean, you're the title character. You're the image that people are going to always remember. And it's your artistic portrayal that made this such a memorable show. So, I mean, I hate to tell you that, but...
LAWLESS: Oh, OK.
MARTÍNEZ: ...But, come on, feel good about what you did.
LAWLESS: Oh, yeah. You know what? I, one time, had that realization. I've forgotten it now, but - because my life - I don't live in the past.
MARTÍNEZ: Yeah.
LAWLESS: You know, I don't think about something - when it's done, it's laters. But I also - I just got so much out of it. I'm honored. I'm honored to have been part of something that did so much good for people in their lives.
MARTÍNEZ: That is Lucy Lawless and Rob Tapert. Thank you, you two, for reminiscing with me about "Xena: Warrior Princess."
LAWLESS: Oh, thanks for having us.
TAPERT: It's been a delight. Thank you very much. And to all you fans of the show, we're certainly glad that you tuned in.
(SOUNDBITE OF JOSEPH LODUCA'S "MAIN TITLE") Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.
