This is the final installment of Talk Humboldt’s look at education at Pelican Bay State Prison. Part I took Keith Flamer and Michael Spagna behind bars and into the classrooms; part II explored the quote “mindshift” in this supermax prison. Today we look at the human experience for both teachers and student. [Disclosure: faculty from both Cal Poly Humboldt and College of the Redwoods are involved with some of these programs.]
TRANSCRIPT:
ANNCR: Previously on Talk Humboldt…
TAYLOR: If we want to enhance public safety, we want to employ programs that work. And what we do know works is prison education programs.
ANNCR: What's it like teaching and learning on a very unusual campus?
TAYLOR: So every faculty member who works for the program, we brought them out here first to see,’ is this an environment that you want to teach in?’
ANNCR: Welcome to part three of Talk Humboldt's Look at education at Pelican Bay State Prison. Part one went behind bars into the classrooms and part two explored the “mind shift” in this supermax prison. And today, it's all about the human experience for both teachers and students. And in the interest of disclosure, faculty from both Cal Poly Humboldt and College of the Redwoods are involved with these programs. And you'll hear about what teaching incarcerated students requires of them from Pelican Bay State Prison and Crescent City. This is talk Humboldt.
SPAGNA: Hi, I'm Mike Spagna, interim president at Cal Poly Humboldt. I'm here with my colleague and partner.
FLAMER: Keith Flamer, president of the College of the redwoods.
REXFORD: My name is Kari Rexford. I am the acting principal at Pelican Bay State Prison for Tsunami Adult School.
TAYLOR: My name is Mark Taylor, and I'm a coordinator for Cal Poly Humboldt’s Project Rebound.
FLAMER: So talk to us a little bit about what it's like for an inmate in an education program here. So what is their typical day?
REXFORD: These days compared to back then... there is so much that they can do throughout the day. You hardly should ever see any of them just kind of sitting in on their bunk. So a normal day: breakfast around 7:00, go to either their job or go to class. Then they have their sack lunch. Then, they go to the next round of either yard, job, or class.
REXFORD: Then comes dinner time, and then after that, maybe they'll go and do their gardening group or L-Woppers group - “Life without parole” group where a lot of the guys get to sit and talk about their stories and just have that community.
TAYLOR: The L-Woppers group is incredible. Like, I went in there a couple times during their graduations, and you see individuals who are studying a courtroom and were told they were never going home. And here they are in this group trying to create a healthy culture for individuals here at Pelican Bay.
SPAGNA: We often talk about the transformative goal of education, and I think we saw that in just walking through some of what you were discussing about, Kari, about some of the programing, because often people think that programing is something you kind of just take in and we just drop it into a place. But there is a unique part of how it evolves - especially in a place like this.
REXFORD: Absolutely. We had an incarcerated person who was very into health and fitness, and he wanted to share that with the rest of the community down here. And again, same process - we helped him develop the bylaws and helped him get the equipment that he needed. Big thing that they're doing right now is also not just mental health, but physical health. It's our job to help them to develop the skills and get the skills so they can go back into society.
FLAMER: Kerri, if I can jump in just a little bit. Is is that a widespread feeling in the prison, or is there some part of the prison hierarchy that doesn't quite buy into education of inmates?
REXFORD: That would be a no. My administration here is fully in support because they see the value. There was a lot of violence, people getting hurt. But the second education comes into play. You see the population on the yard now no longer separated, going to their little groups or little corners or being individualistic, but they're working together in tandem.
FLAMER: How do the guards feel about having inmates that are in class, and have they seen changes in the culture of the prison?
REXFORD: Yes they have. We're right now in a transitional shift amongst the custody officers. To break it down to one sentence, treat each other with respect - custody officer to inmate, and vice versa.
FLAMER: That's a big change!
TAYLOR: If I could add one thing about the staff at Pelican Bay. So I myself spent 21.5 years in prison and was sentenced to life. And when I came home, I began working in Pelican Bay full time while I was on parole. I've never had a bad experience with an officer at this prison, and I think it's really a reflection of the shift in mind state here at the prison, where they're really embracing education and rehabilitative programs.
SPAGNA: A lot of individuals want to know, how do I pursue a path where I'm passionate and dedicated? You both are passionate and dedicated. So in just a really small way, what you've shared a little bit of your background of what got you here with the passion but Kari, what got you here?
REXFORD: Well, for me, my background is totally the antithesis of what you would have thought. I developed my educational career in being a high school English teacher. I have taught in low performing schools, juvenile halls, and for me, I wanted to help fix the ones that people think shouldn't be fixed or can't be fixed and got the job. And I have developed my passion as I've been here.
TAYLOR: And if I could say just real quick, I'm passionate about the work because education saved my life. I'm literally sitting at this table right now, when I could still be sitting in prison with the life sentence. And I want the individuals who are currently experiencing incarceration to experience what would I am, right? Education allowed me to purchase a house. It really put me in a position that I never even imagined. So I want those individuals to experience the same thing, because I know that will enhance public safety. And for the staff who come out here: this is a 90-minute drive on a very isolated road. That's time they have to be away from the campus. You need to be here at least 30 minutes early to ensure you're in the classroom, ready to receive the students.
And, you know, you could be leaving in the winter when there's snow. And these roads are treacherous. It really takes a certain level of commitment to make this program run. The individuals who are on the yard, they have to really want it. And then the prison administration itself, Ms. Rexford, the warden and everyone else who support the program.
TAYLOR: Those four things make it possible for that individual to experience what I have experienced, and I want them all to experience that.
SPAGNA: So if I could ask you, Mark, just for a second, expand on that, because you're working with a lot of faculty. And we saw faculty member today from College of the redwoods. Are there any insights you have in terms of some of the qualities they have or the commitment, or did they go through a conversion experience by first visiting and saying, well, I want to do this.
TAYLOR: So, so every faculty member who works for the program, we brought them out here first try to see, is this an environment that you want to teach in. So this environment is a little bit different, right? So, it takes a certain level of not only commitment but I believe compassion and empathy and a real understanding of what it takes to educate a student in this environment.
But we also are always talking about self-care. Like when you leave this prison, you need to make sure that you're taking care of yourself, which may be stopping and looking at the ocean and just processing what happened in class to make sure that when you get back to your family that you're healthy and whole, just like we want this student to be.
SPAGNA: Any shout outs to faculty who have really made a difference here that answered the call? I mean, we're not. We can't list them all, but we saw one today. I mean, it's good to have shout outs to people that have been in this space.
TAYLOR: Dr. Maxwell Schnurer was the first person to teach for the program. Dr. Mónico, who teaches for CRGS. He's taught two semesters. We currently have, Doctor Ostrove who's teaching here. And Austin Roberts
FLAMER: Also teaches at both schools.
TAYLOR: Both schools. Yeah. There you go. And in addition to, Steven Ladwig, who's the executive director of the Transformative and Restorative Education Center and the person who's in the background making sure with Mr. Rexford that everything is running. Sydney as well, who's full time for track to support this program in Sydney.
SPAGNA: Full name?
OFF-MIC: Sydney Sidney Afsarzadeh
FLAMER: Thank you.
TAYLOR: Sidney Afsarzadeh...Right. But it takes it takes all these individuals, to make the program work. And we've also had a couple of faculty members who, I think they're approaching retirement, but they taught last semester. So we've had several faculty members come through. And, you know, Doctor Schnurer has taught every semester. We also yeah, he's and he's brought his whole department in - you know, you had to get a bu- in from the Communications department.
SPAGNA: And who do we see today in action?
FLAMER: Professor Levi Gill, C.R. faculty. So we were here today with Mark Taylor and Kari Rexford and is Dr. Michael Spagna.
SPAGNA: Colleagues and partners.
FLAMER: Thank you very much for joining us today. And this has been a dream come true for me, this was a phenomenal conversation.
TAYLOR: Thank you, thank you. It's an honor to share this space with you.
ANNCR: From Pelican Bay State Prison, this has been the final installment of Talk Humboldt's look at education inside Pelican Bay. To hear other episodes from the series, visit khsu.org.
REXFORD: Produced at Cal Poly Humboldt.
